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Thread: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    Pulling an LS head is a walk in the park compared to a Try-to

    Chris - did they try welding to the bolts? Pulling the heads to get the bolts out isn't unheard of when drill and extract/tap fails. Machine shop is really the only option left. Whether you should pay depends if the shop is charging you time and materials, a flat fee as long as they don't have to pull the head, or a flat fee.

    Put out the foot on the other glove and consider charging by the inch, storm, or season, or season with a blizzard clause.
    Caucasian and Confident

  2. #32
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    In 15 years of dealing with exhaust manifolds on "the late model" stuff I've yet to have to remove a cylinder head to complete a good repair. Two broken ones isn't even a big deal. It doesn't even get fun until there's at least four broke and its been run that way for at least year. Two broken ones are what I call gravy.

    Firstly, unless the guy rammed a pry bar behind the manifold and ripped it off the engine (ie blatant negligence) then it isn't the shops part to foot the bill for a head R&R. However with that being said removing the head to fix only two broken studs shouldn't even be their plan B. Pulling the head is the absolute final resort. If its their first then either they need the work or they don't know anything about the popular and successful methods to extracting broken studs. And drilling them isn't a plan A smart idea either. Welding a nut on is by far the easiest, quickest and almost (almost) always the #1 successful approach. It's my first go to method for any broken fastener because it works more often than not and in the rare cases it doesn't then it's time to move on to drilling them out. Which is also no big deal right on the engine so again there's no reason to remove the head. Even if you fubar the original hole there's still another backup plan via going oversize for a thread insert. Even if it takes all three tricks to complete the job it's still FAR faster and better than pulling a head (or worse yet both of them) otherwise add another $1500 to an already pricey project.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    I've done V10s. Two broken bolts is nothing. The head doesn't have to come off.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    Still no word on it. I left a message yesterday for the shop owner and never returned my call. Not cool.

    On edit- I havent seen the recent replies to this thread. Not sure why it updated just now.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by B&B View Post
    In 15 years of dealing with exhaust manifolds on "the late model" stuff I've yet to have to remove a cylinder head to complete a good repair. Two broken ones isn't even a big deal. It doesn't even get fun until there's at least four broke and its been run that way for at least year. Two broken ones are what I call gravy.

    Firstly, unless the guy rammed a pry bar behind the manifold and ripped it off the engine (ie blatant negligence) then it isn't the shops part to foot the bill for a head R&R. However with that being said removing the head to fix only two broken studs shouldn't even be their plan B. Pulling the head is the absolute final resort. If its their first then either they need the work or they don't know anything about the popular and successful methods to extracting broken studs. And drilling them isn't a plan A smart idea either. Welding a nut on is by far the easiest, quickest and almost (almost) always the #1 successful approach. It's my first go to method for any broken fastener because it works more often than not and in the rare cases it doesn't then it's time to move on to drilling them out. Which is also no big deal right on the engine so again there's no reason to remove the head. Even if you fubar the original hole there's still another backup plan via going oversize for a thread insert. Even if it takes all three tricks to complete the job it's still FAR faster and better than pulling a head (or worse yet both of them) otherwise add another $1500 to an already pricey project.
    Thanks so much for the response. I talked to another shop and they said they had rarely needed to remove a head and when they did they at least negotiated a price with the customer. I have a bad feeli g that the person working on it lacks experience.

    The technician said that the broken off studs are recessed and not able to weld a nut on
    And no room for a drill. I may have to take it somewhere else...

  6. #36
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    So I guess they do not no what a 90' drill is. Think you need a different shop. They took out the wheel wells right?

  7. #37
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randall View Post
    So I guess they do not no what a 90' drill is. Think you need a different shop. They took out the wheel wells right?
    Being a Furd, they probably removed the cab, box and frame to get at the manifold.

    Why aren't pics allowed in the signature line?

  8. #38
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    The pic shows the two that are a problem. The top one was drilled and tapped. But only halfway because they couldnt get all of the old stud out. The bottom one is snapped off and slightly recessed. They wont go any farther without pulling the head and charging me 20 hours labor.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #39
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    Not trying to pour gas on the fire here, but that is an hour job for that bolt, if that.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    To pour fire on it, lol

    a skilled gas ax operator can blow out that bolt out of the cast iron and all you will have to do is chase the threads after words.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    The head is aluminum. Those bolts usually come right out.
    Now if it was a DODGE, we would just scrap the dam thing!

  12. #42
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    20hrs
    Oh sure you're street smart.


    Sesame Street Smart.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: 5.4 exhaust manifold upgrade?

    20 hrs is the R&R for BOTH cylinder heads. Well maybe it's just for one in their world, but for everyone else it's both. I'm beginning to get the feeling this type of repair isn't one that's on their normal routine list. Sounds more like they guessed the labor hours because they have no idea, or they doubled it simply because they really don't want to do it.


    If he started drilling on them simply because they were broke off below the mating surface, then someone's definitely a newbie because it's still removable by welding a nut on. You simply build the fastener back up with weld first, THEN weld a nut on. The extra heat helps them thread right out more often then not too.

  14. #44
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    I have to replace manifold on another furd and reminded me of this thread. I should have updated it. I ended up taking it to another shop. They did not need to pull the head like the other shop was preparing to do. Instead they used a jig which holds a drill to center on the bolt hole for proper drilling. They used it on both holes and repaired it properly. They had to order the jig and asked me to go 50/50 on it since they will rarely use it. I didnt care. I think it added a $125 to the repair job which wasnt a big deal compared to head removal labor. So far so good. No leaks.

    Now preparing to replace manifold on other F250. Employee wants to tackle this one. Here we go...

  15. #45
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    Nice to hear the results were mulch better with another shop. If you're going to keep Fords and Westerns in your fleet you really should seriously consider setting yourself up to do the more involved jobs in-house.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&B View Post
    If you're going to keep Fords and Westerns.
    No. More like if I have to keep using old vehicles. That's finally changing. Slowly recovering from being married to a tyrant set on destroying my business and my financial well-being...

  17. #47
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    No more Princess Di exhibits?

    Why aren't pics allowed in the signature line?

  18. #48
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  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&B View Post
    If you're going to keep Fords and Westerns in your fleet you really should seriously consider setting yourself up to do the more involved jobs in-house.
    Nominated for quote of the year
    Caucasian and Confident

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2COR517 View Post
    Nominated for quote of the year
    Right on. I have never seen a chevy break down or even rust. Amazing vehicles.

  21. #51
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    Nobody said that....Chevys keep my light bill paid
    Caucasian and Confident

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landgreen View Post
    Right on. I have never seen a chevy break down
    That's a common urban legend, while in actuality they do breakdown, though Palmer says it's still extremely rare. Thought I spied one a few weeks ago myself and had the camera ready. However as I got closer it was just the chick in the Beetle had ran out of gas in the middle of the intersection.





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